Ep. 012 | Dethroning Yourself, Preparing for Big Business Growth, and Creating What You Complain About with Topsie Vandenbosch

Aug 22, 2022

Where you won’t find trendy business tactics, but you will find truthful insights and timeless stories from leaders to look up to.


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Ep. 012 | Curate Conversations With Pia Beck

“You are not a mistake. You made a mistake. So many business owners struggle with that language of, ‘I made a mistake so I am one, so who am I to be a business owner’. It’s easy to feel like you made a mistake that you can’t come back from but that’s not fucking true.” — Topsie Vandenbosch

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In this episode of the Curate Conversations Podcast, Pia talks with Topsie Vandenbosch, an Emotional Intelligence consultant for corporate leaders and a Mindset Coach helping biz owners do the inner work. 

Topsie is a licensed master social worker and former clinical therapist who owned a successful B/M private practice — making her a clear stand-out from the many mindset coaches you see on social media these days. 

She’s a first-generation immigrant, true-crime lover (same!), and host of her own podcast: Crush the Mindset Spiral. 

We hope you enjoy the conversation about everything from the importance of de-throning ourselves to why we need to create the things we complain about.

Links mentioned in this episode:

Music created by Queentide.



In this episode of the Curate Conversations Podcast, I talk with Topsie VandenBosch, an Emotional Intelligence Consultant for corporate leaders and a mindset coach helping business owners do the inner work. Topsie is a licensed master Social Worker and former Clinical Therapist who own a successful brick and mortar private [00:01:00] practice.

Making her a clear standout from the many mindset coaches you see on social media these days. She’s a first generation immigrant true crime lover, same, and host of her own podcast Crush The Mindset Spiral before you listen, you must know one of my favorite and super specific things about Topsie is that she bought a bidet from a brand called tushy and for weeks.

This was like the only thing she talked about on her Instagram stories. She has a fantastic sense of humor. Her delivery is incredible. And so of course I binged every 15 second clip of her talking about this bidet. Then for weeks after that, I was served tushy ads on Instagram constantly and I reached out to her and was like, this is because of you. I hope you’re getting paid for this.

I think that you’ll appreciate this story more. Once you listen to our conversation, [00:02:00] it’ll make a lot more sense. Once you have the privilege of getting to know Topsie throughout this episode. I hope you enjoy our conversation about everything from the importance of dethroning ourselves to why we need to create the things we complain about.

Before we get into the episode, let’s hear from our partners.


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 Okay, so my first question is in your own measure of success, whatever that means to you, tell us about your growth as a leader with your business.

And this could be, you know, quantitative, like you just enrolled eight people into this brand new program you have, or it could be qualitative. Um, like an experience you’ve had recently, something that sticks out to you, what you proud of.

Oh my God. PI this is such a good question. Um, so number of people served, I’m really proud that I kept going, even in, you know, in an online industry, just digital entrepreneurship is tough. And then you wanna add in, um, having a niche that. Either, some people don’t understand, they’ve never heard of they miscategorized, they maybe have also been conditioned to think that mindset is not tangible.

Um, and that it’s not there isn’t unreal ROI. So [00:04:00] I’m just very, very proud of my growth and my confidence and really trusting my life’s purpose. My life’s work and understanding that even if. Somebody doesn’t understand the ROI. Eventually they will. And I needed to trust myself to know that I can say the same thing over and over and people will eventually get it.

And so that’s something that I think has been really instrumental to my growth and just me even, still being in this industry now anyway, is being able to do it. Even when you’re not quite sure whether what you’re doing is landing for people, you know,

That’s so powerful. And I think that anyone that thinks that mindset isn’t tangible or doesn’t have, have an ROI, um, just like doesn’t have big enough problems yet.

I mean, to be quite honest and that’s a blessing, you know, cuz some people don’t understand mindset work because they don’t, they’ve never had something that they’ve had to mentally wor you know, have to handle and deal with, or that’s been difficult for them. And to that, I say that’s fucking amazing and good for you, but it [00:05:00] doesn’t mean that everyone experiences that because they don’t.

Totally. Yeah. Or that it’s not ever gonna happen. Right. Like we’re living in times where in business and in life and in the world and everywhere, like you, we think we’ve like arrived at like

We do.

we can go. Right. And then like something else happens and we. Oh my God. What do we do about this?

So eventually we’re all gonna get

Yes. We’re all gonna get there. And so I think that, you know, in entrepreneurship, a lot of the time it’s about learning how to be your own cheerleader, even when no one’s clapping,

totally. Yeah. It’s not like resilience and like keep, when you, you keep going, even when you’re not getting the validation or when you are in.

Yes, absolutely. You can’t forget that. Yep.

So this was one of my next questions, which is that mindset is a term that’s thrown around like endlessly right everywhere. And especially in the like digital entrepreneurial space. And you said it gets miscategorized, [00:06:00] which I think it totally does. Um, so tell us about that and tell us about how you approach that

Yeah. Yeah. So I love this question. So I think one of the biggest things that grinds my gears, but I also understand why it happens, cuz people have to put things into the context of which they understand them. And so one of the biggest misconceptions is that mindset is Mindset Coaching is Life coaching, and that’s not true.

And the reason for that is because I do not desire to coach people on how to handle all things in their life. That’s not something that’s a strong suit of mine. I can do it. I prefer to focus strictly on how, the way that you think affects the way that you feel. Which impacts your performance and impacts the decisions that you make.

And so mindset coaching, in entrepreneurship, what I do it is very niche because I’m dealing with understanding how people arrive to where they’re at in business, whether it’s through the behaviors that they did or didn’t do the thought patterns that they have or don’t have. And [00:07:00] so I would say, um, when it comes to your question, what I do differently is number one, I take into account.

The person in their environment that they grew up in. And so it’s really important for me to understand the context behind why someone might be struggling with something in business that someone else isn’t. And so oftentimes that ends up being what allows for people to understand, oh my God, I am not just fucking it all up.

I am not, you know, stupid, I, I actually have had this background where maybe I felt like I needed to show up in a certain way in order to get a certain result. Maybe I have felt like all I got was negative reinforcement. And so now I wait for the other shoe to drop. And so, um, or maybe now I wait until deadlines to get things done.

And so I love to help people understand themselves. Intricately so that they can understand how to do business. Because it’s really hard to really show up the way that you want to in your business when you don’t even understand why you do the things [00:08:00] that you do and why you think the way that you think.

And so I think my work is different in that I take into consideration all aspects of the human, rather than just that part that I’m working with. So even though I am gonna be working and helping you, um, address your mindset. and entrepreneurship. We’re also gonna talk about how, what, what kind of support system do you have?

 What do you believe about your mental and emotional health? Um, how flexible are you to shifting your beliefs? Do you come from a background where you were taught these types of things? So I like to really look at how, where we grew up and the things that we took in. How did that impact us as we got older?

And how is it impacting you now inside of your business? Now it’s time to unpack it. Um, so I would say

it’s gonna unpack itself very

oh yes. The word unpacks itself. Yes. Cause a lot of the time I see a lot of that stuff play out publicly is if they don’t unpack it, your business will unpack it for you. And that shit is [00:09:00] not, it’s not comfortable to, to, to quote unquote, fall apart in front of your audience or to, You know, I don’t know, like go off about somebody copying your shit when that comes from your own wound, from whatever.

 It ends up showing up in some way. So I love to look at the full person and their full experience. Um, not just this minutia of what’s going on in their life. Because it always leads back to not always childhood necessarily, but it leads back to your environment, of origin and what you’re used. So I would say that’s what sets me apart is I don’t just look at it as one thing. Everything is nuanced.

Yeah. I think it’s so important. And I think that’s a context that is missing from so many of the like oversimplified mindset conversation, right? It’s like, this is the mindset you need to grow to next level. Or whatever, and it’s just so much, it’s like it will reflect in your business, right? It’ll, it’ll reflect in how you show up in public settings.

It’ll reflect how you interact with your team. It’ll reflect how you handle [00:10:00] conflict and like weird client shit that happens. And though it’s like, It’s like on a human level, right? Like when you own a small business, it becomes such a huge part of like your life and what you spend your time doing in your life’s purpose and what you care about, that it all can get really tangled.

If you don’t take the time and enroll the support to really carefully unpack it. Right. And decide what comes with you on like your journey of growing your business, whatever it is.

Absolutely. And I think another thing too, now, when I’m thinking about how do I approach this work differently is I also don’t promise get rich, quick mindset schemes. Um, and I don’t oversimplify the mindset work, which is really easy to do. I think, especially in, in, in entrepreneurship is easy to get addicted to that instant validation.

Right. And so the last thing that I wanna do is to feed into that and say, oh, by the time you’re done working with me, this is what it, it gets to look like. Yes. I like [00:11:00] to let people know what it can look like, but I also let them know that it’s continued work. That if you do the work, if you apply yourself, if you utilize coping mechanisms, if you utilize your coaching with me, if you show up and you’re honest, and you’re flexible with hearing feedback.

That’s when you will see the return on your investment, but I cannot tell you what that will look like. If you’re not willing to go there with yourself, I can’t force you to do that. So I would say that’s also what separates me is that I don’t, I, I don’t oversimplify the work. The work is the work and I’m not gonna sell you ease. I’m not doing it.

Yeah. Yeah. yeah. Good for you. Um, okay. So on that note, you closed a successful private practice. You had like a brick and mortar location to do what you’re doing now, full time. And, you know, you said I’m your, this is your life’s work. So. Why does this work matter so much? Like you’re specifically working with like high performing high achieving, women identifying most of the time, it sounds like business owners, like why does this matter?

Yeah. I think that it matters because. [00:12:00] Being a person being mentally and emotionally well, and whole, that is what is the driver of everything we do in life. We do everything in life from that lens. And so if we don’t feel whole, if we feel in any way, um, I don’t ever call humans broken, but I will say that we can sometimes look at ourselves that way as if we’re broken as if we’re defective as if we don’t, we don’t know what the fuck we’re doing.

 Struggling with confidence, all of those things, it matters because how you show up in those spaces, it affects how you show up everywhere. And so if you’re not showing up for yourself, if you’re not nurturing yourself, taking care of yourself, Giving yourself like positive reinforcement when no one else is. Being your own cheerleader, giving yourself your own affirmations.

You have to be your biggest fan because you cannot outsource that to anybody. And I see so many people every single day, they outsource their power. They outsource their ability to be successful [00:13:00] onto other people. And you can’t control that. And so what I have learned through not only being a therapist, but also, you know, adding in coaching and consulting is if we are not mentally and emotionally well, nothing is well. Because I have worked with so many high performers where they’re generating their business is generating seven figures.

They’re not generating that in salary. Let’s be very clear. They are generating that inside of their business, which I’m not gonna take it away from them, that is fucking incredible. But they’re miserable because they’re not mentally or emotionally well. So the money ends up being irrelevant and they feel guilt about that because they’re like, I do great work.

My work produces incredible results. It’s changing people’s lives, but why am I not happy? and that’s the shit that I really care about because money is amazing, but money is just a transfer of energy. You need to make sure that you are good inside because no matter how much money you make, it will not land. It will not feel worth it. If you are, have neglected everything in your [00:14:00] pursuit to get it. So that’s why I believe that your mental health is so important. And so is your emotional wellness, which is what I love to focus on inside of my work. Because mindset is your perspective. It’s the way in which you view the world.

That is the difference. Your mental health is a lot more, it’s a lot more, um, intricate. It’s a lot more intricate than that. That involves everything that involves how you show up in all of these different spaces. The pathology of what, of what types of, what types of struggles your family of origin has had and how they have had to adapt to handle it.

That’s mental health that is lineage. You’re looking at your lineage. You’re looking at hereditary, you’re looking at your health. All of those things kind of combine contribute to your mental health, whereas mindset. It’s just the way in which you viewing you are viewing the world or a situation. And that’s why I love doing it with business because a lot of the time, the way business owners view mindset, it.

Honestly [00:15:00] really causing for them to not show up in their full power to doubt the power that they do have and to undersell themselves. And that’s just unacceptable in my world.

I love that I had a. I hesitate to use the word breakthrough, but like something finally like clicked for me, like very, very recently. Right? Like I’ve been, you know, growing my business for the past three and a half years. So just for everyone out there, who’s like, yeah, I’m not there yet. I’m like, yeah, me neither.

like, I had something like just click a couple of weeks ago where someone was trying to, I don’t know, there was some, some dispute, some something, and I was just like, no,


like, no, like I, I know, I know what we’re really good at. I know where this is coming from. This is informed. This is intentional.

Like, and, and I now like have this mindset, right? I have this perspective on like the landscape in the marketplace and what we do, what we’re really good at and what you need. And 


  1. No. like,[00:16:00]


this is how it can be. And, and if, and if you don’t wanna do that, that’s totally okay. And


go about your way, but, you know, I think it’s, um, I think that that feeling of what, or that act, I guess I should say of outsourcing power, like you said, is really common.

And I did that for such a long 


too. And I still do sometimes. Right. There’s still days where I’m like, oh yeah, I mailed that in. And it’s an ongoing

is it’s ongoing practice because it doesn’t matter where you are at and it doesn’t matter how much mu like I’ve worked with

there’s always gonna be like the next money goal.

Yes. There

matter which benchmark you hit, then you’re like, oh, but now we need this

Yes, yes. Or now I’m afraid of losing this, you know, like, and again, it doesn’t, the hierarchy of money is all made. In our minds. We think that because someone makes more money, they have less problems.

No, boo boo. They just got different problems.


they just got different problems. And sometimes it overlaps, it just [00:17:00] looks different. You know, it just looks different, but it’s the same the same shit, different toilet, honey, it’s really no different.

Yeah. Um, on that note, I’m really curious to hear your perspective and how you’d articulate, how our mindset and emotional intelligence challenges change as our business evolves. So whether it’s like, I don’t know, 1, 3, 5 years, or if it’s like major events or benchmarks along the way, like you said, like more money doesn’t mean less problems.

It’s just different problems. So what does that look


over the trajectory of a business?

Yeah, I think year one, a lot of what I see a lot of business owners struggle with is just like the confidence of, can I do this? Can this be sustainable? Who am I to do this there’s imposter syndrome that comes up they’re self sabotaging, hiding, um, being afraid to be visible, right?

Being worried about what other people are going to think about you. And so then that changes the way in which you market and the way in. Sell, if you do it at all, and then [00:18:00] year one, you’re probably gonna experience more jealousy and envy than you have ever experienced in your whole life. And you won’t tell anyone about it because we have been conditioned to view jealousy and envy as being personality flaws.

And I think that that’s a mistake that we have been taught even me when growing up. Um, I grew up in a conservative Christian household. And so you. You’re not jealous. You’re not envious. Why would you be jealous? You know, Jesus has given you so much. And so when you have that conditioning, even if you didn’t grow up in a spiritual household, I’m sure your parents probably alluded to something being unnatural about jealousy or envy, even if it was self conscious, um, self, consciously.

And so what do you do with that? When you get older and all of a sudden you’re so happy for your biz besty, but yet you guys are in the same niche and they are killing it. Now, you’re thinking about the fact that both of you guys started in the same place, but you’re not. You’re like, what if we don’t end at the same space?

Like, what if they surpassed me? What does that mean about my [00:19:00] work ethic? Because I didn’t make the same choices that they did. Right. And so. Year one is a lot of that. And sometimes people aren’t even talking about it, which makes me so sad because you’re probably struggling alone and you feel ashamed.

Shame is a big one that a lot of business owners experience the first year is like, Shame that they haven’t hit their revenue goal. Shame that business ownership feels so hard shame that their expertise is not allowing for them to land the clients that they know that they could land. So there’s just so many things that show up in year one that people have to navigate, um, and it, and it definitely impacts the way that they perform and the decisions that they make inside of their business.

Year three imposter syndrome. I like to call it my husband called it and. I ran with it, the Jenga phenomenon, which is the fear that it’s only gonna take one thing for everything to fall apart. So you know how I hate the game Jenga, by the way, y’all I fucking hate it. But when I 

It’s really stressful.

It’s really stressful.

I just don’t like it. I don’t like things that are [00:20:00] urgent. I don’t like feeling like that, but like you pull out one block, a lot of business owners are afraid that that’s the way their business is set up is that it’s like Jenga. You don’t know when shit is gonna fall apart. And so that comes up for people around year three is like, I’ve built this incredible sustainable business.

However, Is this going to last throughout time? How is this going to evolve? Um, and then also with your three consistency in sales, you’re typically wanting to nail that. And I would say even from my own experience, wondering, is there something more I need to be doing? Can I, you know, is this where my message ends?

Am I going to be able to attract more people into my audience, new blood, new people, into my audience. That, um, align with my message. Is it possible? And then of course, jealousy and envy, when you see your other peers, like starting to just hit these really incredible milestones year five, I would say the same, but I would say you’re searching for more easier and a more efficient ways to do business.

[00:21:00] Oftentimes that’s when you have been, um, you have been served with needing to innovate honey. Something is going on in your business where the same tactics. And I I’ve talked to people who have had to hire me. Now the biggest one is they ran evergreen programs depending on never having to show up and letting the ads do the talking, right.

Do the sales. And then they realized that consumers got smarter and that shit starts to trickle down because then you tell your loved ones, a don’t buy into that ad. We know what comes up. You need to go and do your homework, research these people, but then there’s nothing to research. They decided that social media was just not a, a platform they wanted to leverage, which is fine.

Right. But it, it comes with the cost when you wanna, you know, Get the benefits, but not do the work. You feel me. And so, and so it’s hard. It is a tough time. So I say year five is when a lot of business owners are searching for more efficient ways to do business. They’re revamping things that stopped working, , or aren’t working as well.

They’re [00:22:00] innovating. And honestly, in year five, you need to be so flexible with your mindset and so flexible with your approach because what worked in your one probably won’t work in your five the same way. And it doesn’t mean that you are broken and it doesn’t mean that your audience is broken. It just means that it’s time to innovate and you, you need to start paying attention to the trends, pay attention to what’s going on in the world at large and then speak from there.

So I would say that’s how mindset and emotional intelligence skills really come into play as the years progress.

Yeah. And I think you made such a good point, which is that, you know, at the end of the day, we’re human and the skills that we can cultivate as humans are the things that bring us together, right? Regardless of social media trends, regardless of whatever’s happening in business, it always, always, always comes back down to people, right?

And so the mindset, the perspective you have on the world and your emotional intelligence is, I mean, it’s only going to continue to show up in your life and in your business, as [00:23:00] you continue to try to relate to people, which is what running a business is, right. Is relating to people.

Oh, big time. And it’s been interesting too. Just like being able to work with more businesses, generating seven to eight figures consistently and what they’re investing in. And it’s really interesting how, who you surround yourself with no matter what income level, no matter how long you’ve been in business, that will definitely impact what you value because I’ve been working with people recently who, before would’ve never thought about doing mindset work and now they’re.

I don’t know what the fuck I was doing before it, like I needed this year, one year two, like I thought that solution wasn’t more sales, more marketing, more, more, more when it was really going inward and getting really confident about who they were and what they were a stand for and how they wanted to show that consistently, um, in their messaging and throughout, you know, in, throughout their whole business.

And they, some people have never figured out what that is. They’ve gotten to where they are, which is incredible, but they’ve never had to really. Go inward. And [00:24:00] so, yeah, I think it’s, I, I think that those are some of the things that people can look forward to as they continue business ownership. It’s just doing the work consistently.

Just look forward to it. It’s fine. Not a mess at all. one of my, um, one of my mentors has a saying, she says, um, the way to win the game is not to play.

I love that.

And I think that’s exactly what you’re saying. Right. Which is like, we can chase and we can like be on.


 Hamster wheel of chasing the money or, you know, chasing the marketing trend or chasing the sales or chasing the people we surround ourselves with or whatever.

And at least in my experience, I can say that, like, I didn’t really feel that sense of like self and like freedom in my business until I was just like, Why, why am I doing this? Like, right. I just don’t be with those people. I don’t wanna talk about those things. I don’t


I’m just not this game.

Yes. Yes. I, I actually fucking love that and I, I want for more business [00:25:00] owners too, but it is a really slow. Um, it’s really slow for people to adopt that because I think it takes people get into a place where they’re sick and tired. They’re sick and tired of being sick and tired. They’re sick and tired of the constant pressure.

They’re sick and tired of the constant self-imposed rules and feelings of defeat and competition and all of that. And you have to decide to unsubscribe from all of that shit.

Totally. Totally. 

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 Okay. So we were talking about something right before we hit record, which is this idea of being prepared for really big growth. And as we’re talking about these, like 1, 3, 5 year benchmarks, I think this is really important. And on the same topic of, you know, everyone’s striving for this massive growth, but no, one’s really pausing to think like, am [00:29:00] I ready for this?

Is my team ready for, this is my business ready for, this is my community ready for this. And then, maybe it happens and if you’re anything like me, you spend six months like underwater, like trying to like, you know, scotch tape it all together to like, get through this period and you end up having to like double back and like do a lot more work either. Like logistical, tactical work. You’re also like emotional and mental work. So, talk to us about this, like.

Yeah. I would say so I, in the, a lot of, um, so in a lot of, uh, spiritual spaces, they call it the quantum leap. Which is where you have explosive growth essentially. You are, you are able to, hit a, milestone or a benchmark in a crazy span of time. That’s like unheard of. And so a lot of business owners, that is one of the things that they.

Whether they realize it or not, they’re looking for is their big break. When’s gonna be that big [00:30:00] moment of they’ve arrived and they have sales they desire. The types of clients that they want. They have they’re booked and busy, right. And so we create these arbitrary metrics that then we’re in fucking prison to, because here is what I typically see from like outside’s point of view.

What I have seen. I have worked with many business owners whose nervous systems have been completely. Fucking shattered after experiencing this growth that they thought they wanted, and then they got it and it wasn’t, it wasn’t all that it was cracked up to be. Why? Because it came with a lot of shit that nobody wants to talk about.

No one wants to talk about clients not being happy with the service delivery. No, one’s gonna, no one wants to talk about maybe a client having a different expectation of what your service would be like versus what they actually received. Now. No one wants to talk missing things. Like completely dropping the ball.

No one wants to talk about not having a seamless onboarding and off onboarding experience with clients. And I think that we [00:31:00] have to keep these things in mind when we create these goals, really think about why am I having, why did I create this goal? Why did I, I had a goal of having a hundred thousand dollar month.

I had it. And for me, my perspective was that I was not prepared for it. I wanted it. The money was great, but in the end it was not worth it because of how fucked emotionally I was from not being prepared for all of the emails. For not being prepared with a system to really hold all of these inquiries.

I had more applications coming through than I actually had fucking capacity to handle and manage. And so guess what happened? Lots of people got inside my program who had defaulted. On the first payment and I never caught it until damn near the end. So they got basically a free fucking program. You’re welcome.

There’s a lot of people out there. You’re welcome. And that was on me. That was on me. And I know that some people were like, yeah, you could send them to collections. All these things. Integrity [00:32:00] wise. I knew. That I did not do what I needed to do to be able to set them up for success. So is it true that there was probably integrity issues there where, you know, when you’re not paying for something?

Absolutely. But that’s not my karma. My karma was how I decided to handle it. And so with that being said, I think it’s really important for us when we make goals, make sure that you are equipped to manage and handle what it is you’re asking for, because otherwise it can lead for you to feel that it’s not safe to have explosive growth and that’s not true. It can absolutely be safe emotionally and, and physically in your business to have explosive growth. As a matter of, do you have a system in place to be able to handle it? That’s it, that’s all it’s about. And a lot of business owners are focused more so on the flashy and not so much on the emotional.

Totally. Yeah. I think it’s so interesting. What comes on like the back end of growth like that, and what you said about like your nervous system being fried or that feeling of it being unsafe [00:33:00] or unsteady or like the, like the Jenga phenomenon is like times 100, right? You’re like, I have like one more email in me before I just like go off on someone.

I can always tell. And you know, what’s really funny is that I’m, I don’t know if anyone listening is into human design, but I have found it really helpful for my own life. And I’m a human design projector, which means that I, and it makes sense cause I’m a therapist and I hold space for people. So I’m able to see things that other people may not see because I am so in tune with how people are doing emotionally. So to your point about the one email away from like fucking going off. I can always tell the business owners, especially the ones who tend to have their hearts on their sleeve. Like they write with all of the emotion. Like I know when they’re going through and I, I think it’s a strength of theirs.

Like, don’t get me wrong, but I can always tell when there’s shit going on. I know when they are one fucking Instagram post away from cussing out their whole fucking audience or adding[00:34:00] 


I can tell, I can tell when it’s all of you guys watching my stories, you watch and you don’t buy, like, I want you to like unfollow me.

And I only want people in my community who are ideal clients. And I can tell when people are feeling the scarcity and when they feel like it’s not enough. Or what they have, isn’t working. And I always giggle to myself because I’m like, they’re about to cuss out their audience. I give them a week. If they don’t get this shit under control, they are going to cuss somebody out, somebody on the back end’s getting cussed out or someone in their personal life is gonna hear, um, the consequences of that, because I can just tell when people emotionally are struggling and oftentimes it comes out in our work, whether we like it or not.

totally. I, um, so I’m, getting married to a quantum physicist, so

Get out.

yeah. So I have to tell you this,

I wanna hear this.

So, yeah, we’re like totally opposite ends of the spectrum, right? Like our brains work so differently. We’ve been together for eight [00:35:00] years.

Oh my God.


  1. And congratulations, by the way, 

thank you.

a beautiful thing.

We’re we’re excited.

Um, so, you know, I got into this space and tell him everything I see on the internet, whatever. And I tell him about this idea of like taking a quantum leap because in a lot of the, work that I’ve done too, in my like personal development and spiritual communities and like, it’s a very common thing.

Right. And so, and I don’t know anything about physics. I still don’t know anything about physics even after eight years. And so I’m like explaining this to him and, he was like that doesn’t make any sense. You’re gonna, hopefully you think this is really interesting.

Oh, I need to hear this.

So quantum means very, very, very, very, very small. That’s what it means.

Okay, now you’re blowing my mind. Got it. Okay. I’m listening.

Right. So he hears all these people talking about like, yeah, like this quantum leap, this explosive growth, and he’s just like, it’s literally the exact opposite of that.

And you know, what’s

time you hear someone say that, hopefully you’ll chuckle to

I have never, I actually have never [00:36:00] looked up the word quantum. It’s not, it hasn’t ever registered to me. Oh, this is

he’s, he literally works with like, like ions, like that is like the unit


that he, he like puts them in something. He moves them into something with 

I am blown. I, my mind is blown. Now I need to look into this because I was reading Dr. Joe Dispenza’s book and he talks a lot about quantum physics. So that is, I, I need to, this is very interesting to me, but see, this is why people need to stop, including myself. I mean, just like anyone else. We romanticize this when it’s really about what I was going to say is it’s really about the small.

The small changes, because a lot of the time we’re looking for this big, aha. That’s gonna show us that we made it, or that we hit this huge milestone and we’re forgetting about what’s happening in our businesses right now. You have experienced explosive growth. You just don’t see it that way, but that doesn’t make it not true.


You know? So yeah, that’s the, that’s the most interesting [00:37:00] thing I think about the whole conversation is that oftentimes these business owners are overlooking. They’re overlooking it. 

Yeah, yeah, totally. Okay. So we’ve talked, uh, I think quite a bit about mindset and I wanna go to the emotional intelligence piece for just a second. So in my opinion, emotional intelligence is like the. Lifetime skill to master as just a human, but also specifically as like a leader. Right. Um, so tell me, what do you think where, like, in what situations is this most often missing in business owners of today, right?

Like what are the opportunities to like really employ emotional intelligence that we, we don’t, sometimes we don’t have those skills. Right. When does that 

Okay. I think it shows up when you, the biggest thing is how you lead yourself into decisions. Um, specif specifically as business owners, how do you make buying decision? A lot of business owners [00:38:00] are some, some of them, not everybody, obviously there are many business owners that make buying decisions only using their emotions.

So they’re very much an emotion and it’s okay. You get to own it. You’re an emotional impulsive buyer. Maybe you’re not even impulsive. Maybe you’re just an emotional buyer. Maybe you’re an impulsive buyer. Maybe you’re a person that buys when you are feeling sad and it makes you feel good. Um, and so I think emotional intelligence starts to really matter when you make important decisions inside of your business that affects the future of your business, of your finances, your family. And you have to start thinking about it, not just using your emotions, but also part of the big thing with emotional intelligence is being able to also use logic and facts to be able to back up the decision that you made. But a lot of business owners struggle with that part because many of us don’t want to pay attention to the data. The reason why I know this is because whenever for, for instance, there are so many business owners that could benefit from this work. But I, I tell you, they do a consultation with me to do [00:39:00] emotional intelligence leadership work with me and it’s scary to them. Why it involves asking for feedback from your team, objective feedback from your team to see how you are leading them? How, how well are you demonstrating that this is important to you as a value and as a skill inside of your company. And then how often do you demonstrate it in action?

And I would say many leaders is called the 180 assessment. Many business owners, CEOs, even in corporate. It is difficult to hear that feedback. Even if you trust where it’s coming from, it brings up. Sense of am I not enough? would say so when you are leading yourself to make important decisions in your business, and then when you lead a team, I would say those are the two times that you really notice a deficit in the development of those skills.

That’s when I notice it come up the most and I, I think it doesn’t have to be that way, but I think that when you surround yourself, only with people that are investing in the same thing, it doesn’t allow for you to. Look and see what are some of the different ways that [00:40:00] I can develop my professionalism inside of my company?

What, what am I investing in for professional development? You know, um, how am I, how am I continuing my education? Because there’s always more that you don’t know, and the amount of. Business owners, generating business owners who have approached me to work with me on developing this. It makes me sad.

How many of them say I’m just not ready to hear feedback from my team, but I am ready to work with you one to one on developing my own, but I’m not ready to hear. And that’s okay. That’s why my offers are structured the way they are, because I deeply understand that that is still mindset, work, and leaders need to get comfortable with it themselves so that they can be comfortable hearing feedback from other people and not taking it personal.

Totally accepting feedback is yeah, it’s no joke. , that’s like another one of those things that I think takes like a lifetime to be able to do with emotional intelligence, with grace, with compassion, both for yourself and for other people with, [00:41:00] uh, you know, logical lens on it. Yeah,

It’s hard. It is hard. And I think I, and you’re not weird if you dread it. Like, I don’t expect people to look forward to it, but I think it’s about understanding why it’s important and really, and I think I’m really good as well at, at like helping you. Reframe it and look at it from a completely different perspective, um, both to your employees or contractors, or just with yourself that it’s just information.

It doesn’t mean you have to do anything with it, but it’s just information for you to have, because I also believe that not all good feedback, not all feedback is good. feedback is neutral. It’s about what you make it, you know?

Really, I think it’s really, cool that you brought up professionalism too. You know, like we have, we work with clients who had a career right before they started their business and we work with some clients that didn’t right. And they kind of fell into what they do early. And it’s so interesting for me to see the difference in mindset, in perspective. [00:42:00] From those who kind of crossed over from having this like very long career, where they were held to like very different standards than they are now, versus the people that kind of came up in the digital entrepreneurship.

oh yeah. I definitely think there’s a difference there cuz I see that. I mean, I love working with professionals like people who, before entrepreneurship, they were able to learn the lay of the land and they understand. But I will say that there is something beautiful about having that background because it helps you learn faster and adapt quicker because otherwise.

You’ll constantly feel like you’re behind or that people are trying to critique you. It just leads to a lot of insecurity sometimes that you may not have. There’s some insecurities that I just didn’t struggle with because I came from a corporate environment doing therapy. And so I understand a lot of nuances that some people may not, and that’s my strength.

 But I think that it is important to. To see how you can further develop your skills as a professional, especially when you didn’t have that background, [00:43:00] but even more so when you did. Because if you did have that background, then you know, it’s important to continue your education.

And if you didn’t, it’s your opportunity to now do that in a different format than what you were offered in corporate.

A hundred percent. Okay. I’m gonna switch gears. We’re gonna do something that we’ve never done before.

Okay. Let’s do it.

We’ll see if it works. okay. So I’m gonna, uh, I’m gonna say a word

and you kind of just like rapid fire say from the lens of mindset and emotional intelligence, what comes up.

This is good. Okay. Let’s go

Okay. All right. The first word is trust.

Yourself and your decisions, period.

period. Period. Love that. Perceived credibility.

Mm, this is a good one. Perceived credibility. You’re oh, this is good. Um, perceive credibility. Do your research.

Yeah, worth.

Mm Your worth is not quantifiable. You are worthy as you are.[00:44:00] 

love that. Feedback. Oh, we’re bringing it around again.

Oh, this is good. Not all feedback is good feedback.

yeah. Growth.

Mm. Growth, happens daily.

Ooh, you’re so good at this


test. Drive this.

well, it’s only because I think it is because I I’m also very comfortable with podcasting, so that’s probably why.

Totally. I knew would good. That’s why threw it out. I was on

Oh, I can do it.



Okay, market saturation.

Doesn’t exist.

uh, hiring.

Oh, this is good. Hiring, um, glamorized 

Talk about like all the shit that goes on in like fast growth and also test our like mindset. The most like people management is such a [00:45:00] shit show.

and you have to be honest with yourself. Cuz a lot of people, they wanna make a lot of money, but they don’t desire to have a team and it’s completely possible. You just need to know yourself. Because some people, they don’t have no business managing a team, but they’re doing it anyway. And, and they’re causing their team a lot of mental health issues and I’m like, you don’t need to be a manager. You just don’t like it.

Yeah. yeah. Okay. Uh, leaders of tomorrow.

Ooh. Leadership is an inside job.



That was good.


I love that. Good job.

I love that too.

Okay. So, um, I have just like a couple questions left. I, you are someone who. Is so, whole to use your word, right? Like you just like really emanate this, just like at homeness, in who you are in a way that is like super inspiring and just really, um, a really beautiful like demonstration of what it looks like to feel that like freedom right.

In [00:46:00] who you are and what you do and what you’re good at and what you know, you’re worth. And, I love, I love watching that. And you just like, yeah, you totally embody all of that. And I’m also sure that just like every other person in the history of the world ever, like you have, you have hard days and you have days where like you are struggling with your mindset or, um, yeah.

You’re struggling with confidence or any of these buzzwords that we just threw out. So, tell us about that. Like 

Oh my 

What do you do to get yourself back to center and like back to home when you’re having a day like that?

Oh my God. Yeah, I definitely I’m just like anyone else. I just so happen to have tools. That’s it? I’m, I’m the same as everyone. That’s one of my biggest things with my clients and with anyone that I work with, even when I go, cause I guess coach in many people’s programs, like they hire me to guess coach.

And so I like to share with their students that we are colleagues. I see you as an equal. So I find it it’s really important to say it because not everybody says it. And so people don’t feel that they’re on the same level as you. [00:47:00] So I would say number one, the biggest thing I do is I, I de-throne myself off of the pedestal, cuz I am just like anyone else where I can get caught up in what people think I am versus what’s really happening.

And so I love to de-throne myself by outing myself, whether it’s in an email to my list of like, let me tell you what the fuck I did this weekend or what the fuck I thought to myself this weekend, your girl Topsie was on some bullshit. So like, I love to . I love to break that myth. That I’m perfect because not only is it freedom giving for other people, it creates freedom within myself.

So de-throne yourself at all, like, please do not let your audience think that you don’t struggle with shit. Stop only talking about the good shit. Talk about the, you don’t, you need to share it of course, with nuance and with being aware of how you’re emotionally handling it, whatever. But like, outside of that, like don’t, there’s no need to like put up this, [00:48:00] um, This facade of yourself because you end up digging yourself such a whole when it comes to mindset.

So what I do is I de-pedestal myself. I de-throne myself. I always talk about, I try to make it a point to talk about when things weren’t going so well. I try to normalize certain things that other people don’t like to talk about such as last week, I experienced jealousy. I love to ground myself outside, um, playing in the sun.

 I love to not put any type of urgency in my business model. That means that when I’m pre-launching I give myself tons of time, whether it’s tons of time to get bored with talking about the content over and over, whether it’s tons of time to allow people to come into my world. But I think me learning myself and learning how my audience.

Response to mindset work has allowed for me to actually like, not have as many mindset spirals, because I’m very secure in who I am and what I need to do to be able to get myself back feeling better. So I don’t shame myself when I [00:49:00] am, let’s say I disappoint myself with something that I said or did, like, I don’t beat myself up about it.

I show myself the same grace that I would want someone else to show me. , but yeah, one of the biggest things I do is I take myself off of the pedestal in action and in words, like what I tell people, like, please don’t think that this is not something that I don’t struggle with or deal with. Um, me teaching on emotional intelligence doesn’t mean that I’ve always been perfect with my team.

Um, so full disclosure before I brought this to market, I had to make sure that I was leading from that space. And that I, wasn’t pretending to be something that I wasn’t. And I wasn’t putting on this facade so that other people bought my program.

I wanted to make sure that I was demonstrating that in my own business and with how I treated the people that work with me and for me. So that’s, that’s what I do. Hopefully that makes sense.

I love that. And the timing was just. Chef’s kiss

Oh, my God.

listening. [00:50:00] Talk, literally just like got up and relocated herself because there’s someone cleaning her house, like in the middle of this conversation. 

that crazy? I know.

We’re not sitting in a, a super high tech recording studio. We’re


we are at home.

We are at home and this is ghetto. So I’m doing what I can

So good.

I know what

yeah. I love that about de-throning yourself, through taking yourself off the pedestal and, and outing yourself. That’s so good. I think that we, we do, we live in that, like, when we think we like mess up, right. Or if we actually mess up, I did air quotes, but sometimes we like actually mess up. Right. Um, that we, we lock ourselves into this, Grip this like fear grip of like, Ugh, what if all these people who have asked to trust me, find out about


And I think that just like creating that humanization right. And outing yourself and de-throning yourself and saying like, I am a normal person. Like you are a normal person. And like, sometimes we fuck up and

Yes, it is what it is. And it that’s just how it [00:51:00] is. Um, I sent out an email. I think to my list, some months ago, and I got so many responses back and it was just like talking to the person that felt in their business, that they had made a huge mistake that they couldn’t come back from.

I think that that is something that people struggle with silently and they don’t really talk about it. Like, think about the people who, you know, maybe, I mean, there, we have so many business owners that we have seen come and go in our industry. And I think one of those things that happens is that sometimes people go because.

They feel ashamed of what they’ve done or of mistakes that they’ve made or of, you know, maybe a way that they were making money, wasn’t in alignment, right. With who they were and what they truly believed. And so coming back into digital entrepreneurship can just feel like, am I fucked? Like, is my reputation fucked?

And so something, the email that I sent, I didn’t even really think it was gonna be such a hit, but it was. You are not a mistake. You made a mistake cuz of so many business [00:52:00] owners struggle with that language of, I made a mistake. So I am one. So who am I to be a business, to be a business coach or to be a consultant or to do whatever done, you know, maybe done for you, service work, whatever.

Like it’s easy to feel like you’ve made a mistake that you can’t come back from, but that’s not fucking true.

And it’s so fascinating to me because you look at the, the CEOs and the founders of these giant companies. Yes. Who just make mistakes constantly. constantly. And it’s so interesting how we put so much pressure on ourselves to literally never make a mistake when. You know, one of the, I don’t wanna say like icon, but like one of the models, whether that’s a healthy model or not that we all look to, are these dudes who just like, can’t get their shit

Yeah, do shit together, but yet they’re given so many chances, but yet I’ll speak to us like women or those who live outside of the binary. You feel as if you can’t, you can’t do right. Like you feel as if you do one [00:53:00] thing, people, I mean, I get people. Who hire me specifically because they got called out on something or, you know, their worst fear came true, right.

Cyber bullying or whatever, what, and it fucked with them emotionally. Um, and for a lot of people, that’s their biggest fear is what are people gonna say about me? How am I going to handle this? If I get canceled and all of these things that happen, that feel real, but in reality, The mindset work is in knowing that you are not cancelable.

Nobody is, there are people who have gotten outed for being like closet racist, and they are still thriving honey in, in business and in the companies that they have founded. And so that doesn’t exist. It exists in our mind if we allow it to be, and there are so many ways that we can, go about finding our people who will be on that train of understanding that we are all worthy of redemption. Nobody is holier than thou and everyone is gonna fuck up and you deserve a second chance. You deserve to be fully human [00:54:00] and to lead authentically, with who you are and not feel ashamed of anything. There’s nobody, there’s nothing anybody can say about Topsie, no business mistake, nothing that I haven’t fucking owned and that I’m not going to feel.

I, I, I mean, it might sting, but you’re not gonna tell me some shit that I don’t already know. Boo, boo. You’re not.

Yeah. Hmm.

So I think it’s important for business owners just to have that confidence.


Nobody’s waiting to out you, and if they are, they need a fucking life.

Right. or they need you because they’ve got their own mindset issues.

Yes. They got their own shit going on. Absolutely, absolutely.


are there any resources outside of your programs, obviously that you love?

Mm. For mindset.

mindset and, or emotional intelligence, 


book, or, you know, you mentioned the 180 assessment tool, anything

Oh, okay. Yeah. I mean, I think if you wanted to do, obviously if you wanted to do mindset and emotional intelligence work, you can always hire me outside of that , there is a lot of [00:55:00] different things.

I think that mindset work can just be finding things you enjoy outside of your business, to be quite honest. I think that a lot of us are really good at finding ways to keep busy outside of work, which is keeping busy with work. So I found that I. Stopped buying a lot of, um, business development books, because it made me feel like I was constantly broken or that I was constantly searching for.

Um, I was constantly searching for what, how, what can make me a better leader. Which is great, but I needed to go internal with that work. And so, so I would say finding things that you enjoy outside of your business, not allowing your business to become who you are. Don’t allow that to be your identity.

It’s not worth it. It’s a one piece of you, but it’s not the whole part of you. The other thing in regards to resources, I think obviously like allowing yourself to, take like some, do some type of, Some type of professional development, continuing education. I [00:56:00] think that’s another way to develop more emotional intelligence skills because you are allowing yourself to not just focus on just this, like, you know, microwave instant gratification.

What’s gonna get me the next sale. What’s gonna get you to last in your career. Let’s talk about that. What’s gonna keep you around. And then one of the books that I love is, The Originals by Adam Grant. And it’s basically talking about how it’s like, these are the innovators. The, so I, so basically, like, I think he talked about in the book, one of the founders of, um, Warby Parker and just really talked about how that idea came about.

And it just inspired me to remember that we are the ones that get to pave our own way. And that just because you don’t see, it doesn’t mean that you can’t create it. Create what it is that you complain about. That’s another thing is that in our industry, people like to bitch a lot and they like to complain and I’m all about solutions. How can you provide a solution?


to what you can’t stand to [00:57:00] see?

A hundred percent and even internally in your business too, like do that with your offerings. Right. But even internally, when you find yourself complaining about like all the frictions that you’re feeling in your business, create it, like, like what you don’t have to do it the way that, so, and so person on the internet says to fix this problem, right?

How would you fix the problem? What makes sense for you and for your team?

Yes. And that’s the other piece that I have found. So, yes. So I think my suggestions are not so much like business development focus, but it is about allowing your brain to be flexible to other solutions outside of what you have been conditioned to see as the norm.


Do that and do more of that.

I also, the other mindset, emotional intelligence work is stop surrounding yourself with the same motherfuckers who don’t in, who don’t make you feel uncomfortable. Stop surrounding yourself with people who you feel so, so comfortable with. The reason for that is because I think when I joined the Dear Media, podcast network, I’m no longer with them, but I love them.

They’re such an incredible company. But when I joined [00:58:00] them, I was able to interview and be interviewed with so many, so many people, celebrities, the like that I had only dreamed about. That I never saw myself being in their league. And I realized, and even me, I realized that we make up so much shit and you just get to stand in your power.

You get to be yourself, but it’s also really good to stretch yourself and to be amongst people who. Are doing things better than you or who are making more money than you or who have. I’m just, I, people don’t like to say this stuff, but it’s so even though we’re all the same, we get to learn and be inspired by other people.

Stop surrounding yourself with the same people who don’t challenge you and who are doing the same things. Like surround yourself with people in different industries that you can learn from. I have learned so much through, through just being on a network with other people who I consider not only business owners, but influencers.

Like I, I now it makes me want to expand what I have seen as [00:59:00] the only way in business, to there’s multiple ways that are just as impactful, you know?

A percent.

Yeah, those are some of my thoughts.

I love that we’re going through an expansion project right now and I’m walking into these rooms where people don’t take me seriously. Right. And it’s so it’s, it’s wildly frustrating, but

Oh wait. Oh, it’s wildly frustrating. Yes. That’s the, that’s

really important, right? Because I have, I’ve gotten comfortable to like, this is my domain and this is where I have expertise. And then this is where people know what I’m good at. And then I walk into this other space and you 

No one knows you.

right. And I pull up on my little white scooter and I’m like, I’m here to do this like big badass thing. And these dudes are like, what?

What wait, what do you do? Oh, oh, and it’s, and it’s insanely frustrating, but you know what? I think the other thing too is like learning how to be okay with people not fucking getting it.

Yeah, totally.

I don’t need for people to get it. Just remember that I’m a consultant. That’s all you need to remember and just respect me.

That’s it [01:00:00] respect me, respect my expertise. I don’t give a shit. Whether you ever hire me, whether you never refer me, I just need you to do one thing and that’s respect.


That’s it. And when you have that attitude, it makes it so much easier to relate to people.

Yeah, it really does. Hmm. Okay. One last question for

Yes, of 

which is, the mic is yours. What didn’t I ask you about that you wanna say?

Oh my God. You asked me so much good shit. I mean, I, I think that you covered it all, but really like mindset work is a business strategy. So if there’s one thing that I want for business owners to know, and to hear is that do not look at it as I’m wasting time, or how is this reaching this metric or this KPI don’t get it twisted.

I do KPIs with my mindset, coaching clients. It just looks different. It’s demonstrated through the behaviors that they engage in consistently inside of their business. And then we track the result from that. And so [01:01:00] that’s the biggest thing I think I want for more business owners to know is that your mindset strategy is a business strategy period.

Point blank. That is what is going to contribute to you. Having in sustaining those high cash months, those income fluctuations, you only get one brain. So stop acting like stop taking it for granted and actually nurture it.

And if this conversation didn’t prove that I don’t know what 


Oh my God. Thank you, Pia. This was amazing.

Thanks so much for, for joining us and just sharing so much, awesome perspective and reframing and, I think a little bit of a wake up call too, to everyone who’s listening. It was awesome.

Oh, my gosh. I hope so. Well y’all thank you so much for listening. I hope you guys enjoyed, um, I do have an incredible free guide for those of you that want to kind of be introduced to my work. I have this incredible fucking guide called, ” How to destroy the thought spiral in entrepreneurship”. I take you through my framework to destroying thought spirals and entrepreneurship, and you’re gonna [01:02:00] learn just so much about me, about yourself, and about how to identify that shit when it shows up when you have thought spirals. Which is where a thought spiral is, where you have this intrusive thought and you can’t stop thinking about it. And it affects the way in which you show up inside of your business and your life. Um, and so once you go through that exercise that I take you through inside of that guide, I hope that my hope is that it really introduces you to the work, how beneficial the work is and helps you notice some of those patterns in your own business so that you can stop them before they happen, because that’s my biggest goal.

So join my email list, topsievandenbosch.com. Follow me on Instagram @topsievandenbosch. 

That’ll all be in the show notes. Thank you so much for having me Pia.

Yeah, thanks so much for being here.

All right. Y’all I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Topsie as much as I did. She shows up boldly, unapologetically, and bigger than life on social. One of the many things to love about her, and she’s not afraid to call you out and call you in. But once you get into a private virtual meeting room with topsy, you really get to experience all of her other sides, too.[01:03:00] 

The ones that are kind empathetic, deeply knowledgeable, and so very human in equally lovable ways. You can find topsy on Instagram @topsievandenbosch, and you can visit her website, www.topsievandenbosch.com to learn more about her services.


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